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Post by vox on Dec 13, 2006 8:02:29 GMT -5
You are CORRECT on all counts...especially about Whiney Moses...the Israelites were a PEOPLE thousands of years before they became a nation. The Nation of Israel didn't come into existence until 1948. The name for the land was taken from the name of the people, not the other way around as Koinonia would have you believe. Keep reading. Israel is a people who, after 40 years of wandering in the desert make it to the Promised Land - Israel. Do a search in your Bible which shows maps of the Middle East at various stages in history or go to Google and search for historical maps of Israel. You WILL find Israel was a nation a long time ago and for a long long time. BUT, that "promised land" already had a name (Canaan) and already belonged to someone else (the Canaanites), and when the Hebrews muscled into the country, taking lands that already belonged to someone else, they set up a country. Was it Israel? NO. It was Judea. And, not long after they showed up the Greeks came along and took it for themselves, and then the Romans came along and took it for themselves, and then the Byzantine Empire, and then the Ottoman Empire, and eventually the British came along and grabbed it for part of their empire, along with most of the Middle East and the Indian sub-continent. But the nation of Israel did not occur until 1948.
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Post by vox on Dec 13, 2006 8:33:48 GMT -5
I have to make a correction, and an apology. Koinonia was correct, in that there actually was a Kingdom that referred to itself as Israel from 1000BC to 722BC. I was mistaken and I apologize. out of the 5000 year history of the civilization of that piece of land it was Israel for about 280 years about 2700 years ago, and then again for about 58 years in the Common Era. However It was a part of Egypt for 1200 years before that, and every other empire that has come along in that part of the world has claimed ownership of the land.
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Post by Sauerkraut on Dec 13, 2006 10:22:16 GMT -5
All of which has nothing to do with my question to you. Again, just what is it you want from the 100s of thousands of Muslim citizens in this country since you think they should be treated differently because of irrational fear directed at all Muslims? Heck, I'm still waiting for him to actually explain what American "Culture" actually is! We have a culture and a way of life, it speaks English, we dress the western world look with a shirt, pants and shoes. We listen to common music and have common food tastes. BTW, Did ya hear about some ethinc restaurants in New York that were selling (to our western viewpoint at least) real bad food such as the lungs of an animal and other weird food like that. The food inspecters shut them down. It was just in the news and I think we had a tread about that here on the forum. The people who ate that stuff were 3rd world immigrants.
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Post by Sauerkraut on Dec 13, 2006 10:26:52 GMT -5
I believe Israel and jews are indeed gods chosen people like the bible sez. God gave that land to the jews. The bible even sez that the jews will offten be scattered around the world till near the end times when they will have a home land, and in 1948 they got Israel, a homeland. but that area long before was for the jews. The Muslims believe the oppisit, that their god is aginst the jews and the jews and Israel have no right to exist.
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Post by Sauerkraut on Dec 13, 2006 10:37:15 GMT -5
All of which has nothing to do with my question to you. Again, just what is it you want from the 100s of thousands of Muslim citizens in this country since you think they should be treated differently because of irrational fear directed at all Muslims? Sorry but it's NOT a irrational fear. Every terrorist attack was done by a Muslim, from the 1993 twin tower attack to the Cole to 09-11-01 to the shoe bomber to the Columbus shopping mall bomber of 2003 to this new shopping mall bomber of 2006. Sooner or a latter a Muslim bomber will get away it and blow up a mall or ball park, killing thousands. Wearing a burqua is a great place to hide a big bomb too. Shopping malls have no security screeners at the doors or metal/bomb dectectors, and most ball parks are the same way. Do you suggest we wait till they kill a few thousand citizens before we take pro-active action to stop them? Let's saves lives before they get a chance to blow up a mall. Had Clinton gone to war after the 1993 terror attack on the twin towers we may have saved 3,000 lives and 09-11-01 never would of happened. But we would never of known that we preventd a big terrorist attack since 09-11-01 would just have been anothe run of the mill day. The Muslims need to understand why we are worried about them, we have good reason to be.
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Post by bizzalou on Dec 13, 2006 10:56:38 GMT -5
All of which has nothing to do with my question to you. Again, just what is it you want from the 100s of thousands of Muslim citizens in this country since you think they should be treated differently because of irrational fear directed at all Muslims? Sorry but it's NOT a irrational fear. Every terrorist attack was done by a Muslim, from the 1993 twin tower attack to the Cole to 09-11-01 to the shoe bomber to the Columbus shopping mall bomber of 2003 to this new shopping mall bomber of 2006. Sooner or a latter a Muslim bomber will get away it and blow up a mall or ball park, killing thousands. Wearing a burqua is a great place to hide a big bomb too. Shopping malls have no security screeners at the doors or metal/bomb dectectors, and most ball parks are the same way. Do you suggest we wait till they kill a few thousand citizens before we take pro-active action to stop them? Let's saves lives before they get a chance to blow up a mall. Had Clinton gone to war after the 1993 terror attack on the twin towers we may have saved 3,000 lives and 09-11-01 never would of happened. But we would never of known that we preventd a big terrorist attack since 09-11-01 would just have been anothe run of the mill day. The Muslims need to understand why we are worried about them, we have good reason to be. Timothy McVeigh was an American. So is Charles Manson, The Branch Dividians, and the Ku Klux Klan. By your logic, we should therefore fear ALL Americans, because among us there are terrorists and killers.
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Post by Sauerkraut on Dec 13, 2006 11:01:45 GMT -5
Sorry but it's NOT a irrational fear. Every terrorist attack was done by a Muslim, from the 1993 twin tower attack to the Cole to 09-11-01 to the shoe bomber to the Columbus shopping mall bomber of 2003 to this new shopping mall bomber of 2006. Sooner or a latter a Muslim bomber will get away it and blow up a mall or ball park, killing thousands. Wearing a burqua is a great place to hide a big bomb too. Shopping malls have no security screeners at the doors or metal/bomb dectectors, and most ball parks are the same way. Do you suggest we wait till they kill a few thousand citizens before we take pro-active action to stop them? Let's saves lives before they get a chance to blow up a mall. Had Clinton gone to war after the 1993 terror attack on the twin towers we may have saved 3,000 lives and 09-11-01 never would of happened. But we would never of known that we preventd a big terrorist attack since 09-11-01 would just have been anothe run of the mill day. The Muslims need to understand why we are worried about them, we have good reason to be. Timothy McVeigh was an American. So is Charles Manson, The Branch Dividians, and the Ku Klux Klan. By your logic, we should therefore fear ALL Americans, because among us there are terrorists and killers. Yeah right here it comes. I never knew they had a world -wide network and did suicide attacks. Apples & oranges, one is a criminal act the other an act of terror. Just by the shear numbers it's in another ball park, there's millions of radical jihadists. But There is only one Tim McVeigh and he's gone. We go where the threat is.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2006 11:01:55 GMT -5
True, Bizz, but those you mention are freaks, not members of an organized group that is committed to killing Christians/infidels. Our so-called "war on terrorism" is nothing more than a religious war or jihad, IMO. And yeah, yeah, I know not all muslims are involved.
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Post by bizzalou on Dec 13, 2006 11:59:45 GMT -5
True, Bizz, but those you mention are freaks, not members of an organized group that is committed to killing Christians/infidels. Our so-called "war on terrorism" is nothing more than a religious war or jihad, IMO. And yeah, yeah, I know not all muslims are involved. Charles Manson's group was somewhat organized. He had followers, and actually still does. The Branch Dividians were an organized group, as is the KKK.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2006 12:09:06 GMT -5
True, Bizz, but those you mention are freaks, not members of an organized group that is committed to killing Christians/infidels. Our so-called "war on terrorism" is nothing more than a religious war or jihad, IMO. And yeah, yeah, I know not all muslims are involved. Charles Manson's group was somewhat organized. He had followers, and actually still does. The Branch Dividians were an organized group, as is the KKK. Manson was a psycho, and the Branch Davidians killed no one until they were attacked at their own compound...they weren't a threat to Americans in general, nor is the KKK.
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Post by Koinonia on Dec 13, 2006 13:05:13 GMT -5
I have to make a correction, and an apology. Koinonia was correct, in that there actually was a Kingdom that referred to itself as Israel from 1000BC to 722BC. I was mistaken and I apologize. out of the 5000 year history of the civilization of that piece of land it was Israel for about 280 years about 2700 years ago, and then again for about 58 years in the Common Era. However It was a part of Egypt for 1200 years before that, and every other empire that has come along in that part of the world has claimed ownership of the land. Thank you for that, vox. It is appreciated much.
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Post by heathenesque on Dec 13, 2006 19:37:26 GMT -5
We have a culture and a way of life, it speaks English, we dress the western world look with a shirt, pants and shoes. We listen to common music and have common food tastes. I don't wear pants. I usually wear dresses and skirts. I listen to a lot of Japanese, Russian, ME, Indian and European music. I happen to love sushi, and curry, and Indian food, and ME food. I even cook Russian on occasion. Gee. I guess I'm not an American.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2006 19:39:31 GMT -5
I happen to love sushi, and curry, and Indian food, and ME food. I even cook Russian on occasion. I like me food too. But me food sure as hell don't include sushi.
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Post by heathenesque on Dec 13, 2006 19:41:18 GMT -5
I happen to love sushi, and curry, and Indian food, and ME food. I even cook Russian on occasion. I like me food too. But me food sure as hell don't include sushi. ME as in Middle Eastern. DUH And to each his own. *shrugs* My favorite sushi is eel.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2006 19:43:10 GMT -5
I like me food too. But me food sure as hell don't include sushi. ME as in Middle Eastern. DUH And to each his own. *shrugs* My favorite sushi is eel. Sheesh, it was a joke Heathen, except for the sushi part...ugh!
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