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Post by mrsp on Dec 9, 2006 10:29:47 GMT -5
September = Ramadan, Yom Kippur, Fall Solstice And yet no one calls it "Happy Holidays". That's because it doesn't have any Christian holiday and we all know Christians are most important.
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Post by Sauerkraut on Dec 9, 2006 10:49:18 GMT -5
I was thinking about that line where it goes "All men are created equal by their creator" (or words to that effect) and it's also mentioned in many other historic papers when our nation was founded. But not the constitution, and by your reasoning based on the fact that separation is not in the constitution, it must therefore not exist. You stated that god is mentioned in the constitution, it isn't. Assimilate man!! Learn your nations founding documents before you spout off about what is in them. Cut me some slack. it's been years since I was in school. I should of said the "Declaration Of Indpendence" There's a phrase in there in the 2nd paragraph that refers to a creator. There are also other documents and historical papers from the late 1700's that talk of "god'. I goofed and said "constitution" instead.
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Post by Sauerkraut on Dec 9, 2006 10:57:14 GMT -5
last time i checked i said this time of year, stop reading stuff that isn't there and go read the bill like i said. you have the jewish holidays, muslim holidays, christian holidays, pegan holidays all within a month of each other. get a grip with reality. September = Ramadan, Yom Kippur, Fall Solstice And yet no one calls it "Happy Holidays". I agree, but because people have brought pressure, local McDonalds restaurants now have "Merry Christmas" signs, when they used to post "Happy Hollidays" greetings.. Wal-Mart is also saying "Christmas" now. Many Stores that play Christmas music are using some religious tunes mixed in with the "Frosty the snowman songs.. That's good. Ever notice how when Christmas is over the term "Happy Holidays" ends? With New years no one sez "Happy Holiday" They say "Happy New years"-- Christmas is only Holiday of the year that people like to leave out the name of the holiday and just use generic terms. What would the the 4th of July be like if you never used the words and just called it "Happy July Holiday"? When a sales clerk sez "Happy Holidays" to me I always reply back "What holliday are ya talking about"? When they do say "Merry Christmas" I thank them for using that term. Let's keep the Christmas in December 25th. it's the reason for the season. A local TV station in Detroit once said right on Christmas day "Happy Kwansa" from your channel 4 news team. This was around 1995 when I was in Michigan visiting my mother for Christmas. Most TV stations just use the term "Happy Holidays". I guess they got some complaints for doing that. it's really just PC run amuck.
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Post by mrsp on Dec 9, 2006 10:58:47 GMT -5
[Cut me some slack. it's been years since I was in school. I should of said the "Declaration Of Indpendence" There's a phrase in there in the 2nd paragraph that refers to a creator. There are also other documents and historical papers from the late 1700's that talk of "god'. I goofed and said "constitution" instead. But the point is that you didn't make just a goof. You made repeated statements that were clearly wrong and displayed a lack of knowledge about your own history, country and laws. Its unfortunatley typical of way too many Americans.
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Post by Sauerkraut on Dec 9, 2006 11:06:22 GMT -5
[Cut me some slack. it's been years since I was in school. I should of said the "Declaration Of Indpendence" There's a phrase in there in the 2nd paragraph that refers to a creator. There are also other documents and historical papers from the late 1700's that talk of "god'. I goofed and said "constitution" instead. But the point is that you didn't make just a goof. You made repeated statements that were clearly wrong and displayed a lack of knowledge about your own history, country and laws. Its unfortunatley typical of way too many Americans. I corrected the mistake. I mentioned the wrong document. many of our historic documents and papers did bring up religious words in them. Our founders were religious men, but they did not build a church-state.
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Post by britcaptain on Dec 9, 2006 11:23:44 GMT -5
But not the constitution, and by your reasoning based on the fact that separation is not in the constitution, it must therefore not exist. You stated that god is mentioned in the constitution, it isn't. Assimilate man!! Learn your nations founding documents before you spout off about what is in them. Cut me some slack. it's been years since I was in school. I should of said the "Declaration Of Indpendence" There's a phrase in there in the 2nd paragraph that refers to a creator. There are also other documents and historical papers from the late 1700's that talk of "god'. I goofed and said "constitution" instead. So? You said that because separation is not in the constitution, it does not exist, but to make your point you want to use other documents that are not in the constitution, which is it, or are you picking and choosing the documents because they suit you.
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Post by Raven on Dec 9, 2006 12:00:52 GMT -5
I dont see why she couldnt pray where she wants how she want. There are plenty of Christans in the US who pray in public. Resteraunts, sometimes they gather around the pole at schools and pray. They hold hands when the need catches them no matter where it is and pray outloud.. they shake they speak in tongues, they are very public about it. If they can do it so can muslims as well. Just because its different doesnt mean its wrong. Hell I had a fitness coach hold my hands and pray in a bathroom at the fitness center for my son and his first day of school. So please dont be hypocritical.. be honest. Stop being such ignorant louts and bigots and do what you want others to do for you.. go on and mind your own business.
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Post by heathenesque on Dec 9, 2006 13:13:53 GMT -5
From the story: So? What's the problem? She wasn't kneeling in the center of the track, or the middle of the Jazzersize floor. Why is she being villified? Because she's Muslim?
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Post by Sauerkraut on Dec 9, 2006 14:17:33 GMT -5
Cut me some slack. it's been years since I was in school. I should of said the "Declaration Of Indpendence" There's a phrase in there in the 2nd paragraph that refers to a creator. There are also other documents and historical papers from the late 1700's that talk of "god'. I goofed and said "constitution" instead. So? You said that because separation is not in the constitution, it does not exist, but to make your point you want to use other documents that are not in the constitution, which is it, or are you picking and choosing the documents because they suit you. Your just splitting hairs. I was thinking "Preample to the Constitution" instead of Declaration of Indpendence". The point is that we do have historic documents that show we believed in a "god". There are also many other items that talk of a creator written by the founders. Such as letters sent between them and notes of discussions they had when drafting up the constitution. I guess alot of that stuff can be seen on display in Wash. DC where Mrs. P lives. AND, Yes, the words "sep. of church and state" are not in the constitution. Liberal courts have put it there. They somehow read that in to the constitution...All the constitution sez is that we have no gov't religion everyone is free to worship as they see fit, without any fear of harm. Freedom of religion, -NOT- freedom from religion. or so it seems to me.
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Post by Sauerkraut on Dec 9, 2006 14:23:50 GMT -5
From the story: So? What's the problem? She wasn't kneeling in the center of the track, or the middle of the Jazzersize floor. Why is she being villified? Because she's Muslim? That's ok as long as she does not disturb others. Private is the key word here. That is how they should do it. What I see will come next if this Muslim open prayer is allowed to continue is that one fine day a group of Muslims will get up in the middle of a movie in a crowded movie house and call for the projector to be shut off for 5 minutes while they pray. Then everyone will have to sit and wait while they pray. That would be very wrong. But it may happen the way things are going. They (Muslims) have to learn that this is a secular nation and they can't force others to bend to their ways. The Muslims need to show tolerance to other people. or so it seems to me.
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Post by britcaptain on Dec 9, 2006 14:29:38 GMT -5
So? You said that because separation is not in the constitution, it does not exist, but to make your point you want to use other documents that are not in the constitution, which is it, or are you picking and choosing the documents because they suit you. Your just splitting hairs. I was thinking "Preample to the Constitution" instead of Declaration of Indpendence". . If you knew anything about the history of this country, you'd know that there is a significant difference. The Constitution is the supreme law of the land, the Declaration is statement explaining that the 13 colonies henceforth would not owe allegiance to the King. Freedom of Religion is not mentioned in the Constitution in that form either, so your argument that freedom from religion is not included is a logical fallacy.
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Post by Sauerkraut on Dec 9, 2006 14:48:46 GMT -5
Your just splitting hairs. I was thinking "Preample to the Constitution" instead of Declaration of Indpendence". . If you knew anything about the history of this country, you'd know that there is a significant difference. The Constitution is the supreme law of the land, the Declaration is statement explaining that the 13 colonies henceforth would not owe allegiance to the King. Freedom of Religion is not mentioned in the Constitution in that form either, so your argument that freedom from religion is not included is a logical fallacy. It's been many years since I studied the History of the USA. As for the "Declaration of Independence", yes- it's a statement to England that we wish to bust away from the crown and form ourselfs a new gov't, but the intresting thing is that the men used the word "Creator" in it when they could of not said anything religious. Those were men of faith who help found our nation.
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Post by britcaptain on Dec 9, 2006 15:13:45 GMT -5
So you're saying that this is a christian nation right?
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Post by Sauerkraut on Dec 9, 2006 15:21:56 GMT -5
So you're saying that this is a christian nation right? No I never said that. we're a secular nation, but many of our laws, and the like are based on the Christian faith. The right to free speech, the right to worship as you wish (without a religious police force like Iran & saudia Aribia have). The persuit of being happy as long as you don't hurt others. I'm just saying that our founders were men of faith for the most part. They had that in mind when drawing up the constitution. Even Congress has a prayer each morning. Many court houses have a religious saying carved in stone above the door way. We take a oath on the Bible. Congress also said that Dec. 25th is to be a national holiday. That's the birth of Christ. Things like that.
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Post by Raven on Dec 9, 2006 15:29:21 GMT -5
So if they were men of faith why do you have this idea they would object to devout people of other faiths praying to God/Allah? It stands to reason that they would admire such a thing.
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